Technology Marketing with the CMO of Unica Corp

[00:06]
Matthew: Hello and welcome!  Today is September 3rd, 2009, and you’re watching PTV Live!

[applause]

[00:13]
Paul: All for me, all for me.

[00:14]
Matthew: That’s right, all for you!  Today we’re here talking to Paul McNulty, Chief Marketing Officer at Unica.  We’re very happy to have you on the show today.

[00:21]
Paul:  Glad to be here.

[00:22]
Matthew: Thanks for joining us.  My name is Matthew Mamet, and I’m @msmamet on Twitter, and just want to remind everyone, this is an interactive show!  Please talk to us on Twitter!  You can use the PTV Live hash tag, and we’ll get your questions answered on the show today live!  So, thanks again for being here.

[00:36]
Paul: All right.  Glad to be here.

[00:37]
Matthew: I know you had a very very long travel…

[00:39]
Paul: I did a long commute.

[00:40]
Matthew: …approximately 500 yards from that direction over here. [laughs]  We are basically neighbors here up here in Waltham [sp]. 

Just wanted to start by asking you Paul, as the CMO of Unica, which is known as one of the premier sources of products that provide deeper level of insights for business website activity, how does Unica help companies with online marketing?  

[01:02]
Paul: Well, we have a variety of different products that we offer, and solutions and services that we offer for online marketing.  Net Insight[sp], which is our web analytics product, is a great product to help our customers analyze their web data, and then more importantly, be able to analyze that data, combine that data with their other customer-related data, for deeper insights into not only web traffic and visitor traffic, but how specific individuals align with their purchase history, their previous history, and interactions with companies also using the web, so kind of blending that customer data with web data.

[01:36]
Matthew: Ok, so bringing together the online data with some of the offline data?

[01:39]
Paul: …with offline data, yup.  And then we also offer a full suite, a full interactive marketing solution which allows marketers to again analyze their customer data, and then create outbound campaigns through email, which would be the primary online vehicle that our customers use, and then also to personalize the website, so we have a product that allows you to, based on, again, customer history, customer context, personalize website offers for individual customers.

[02:07]
Matthew: Excellent, so, myself, someone who has been in online marketing for years, I’m well aware of Unica, and I’m really excited again to have you on the show.

[02:15]
Paul: Good!

[02:16]
Matthew: I want to learn a little bit more about how, as a CMO of Unica, how you are approaching that brand, as well as information that you can share with clients and customers that you have. 

[02:23]
Paul: Absolutely.  Good.  I’ll do my best.

[02:27]
Matthew: So, we’ll get to some of that a little later on in the show.

[02:28]
Paul: OK.

[02:29]
Matthew: I just want to start with an article – interview, actually, that I read on DM News[sp], in which you were interviewed, and you said that, ”In departments that make good use of technology, it makes for more effective marketing.”  Which, understanding a little more about what Unica does, that doesn’t seem like much of a surprise that you would say that…

[02:44]
Paul:  Nope, no. [laughs]

[02:46]
Matthew: So really what I want to ask is, for those marketers that haven’t yet embraced technology, how would you recommend that they really see the light and get on the bus?
 
[02:55]
Paul:  Sure.  Well, I mean in some respects, marketing technology is a lot like technologies that we’ve been involved in, in different ways.  I mean it’s important to begin by understanding what your business problem – business challenge is, you know, what is it that you’re trying to do?  What is the problem that you’re trying to solve?  If you’re having problems and you want to better analyze and more deeply understand your web data, that would take you down one path. If you have situations where you want to better present customized and personalized offers to your customers, that would take you down another path.  If it’s about simply – not simply, but increasing productivity, increasing response rates, increasing the amount of work your staff can do, that takes you down another path.  So I think it’s more important to start by understanding what the business problem is you’re trying to solve, and then that will kind of guide you to the next steps that you take as you evaluate technologies.  And you know, there’s different companies that specialize in different technologies. 

And then once you’ve done that, there’s a variety of tools or sites for information that you can use to analyze or evaluate different solutions.  Personally, I’m a big believer in Forester[sp], I think they do a nice job from the standpoint of pretty in-depth analysis of different technologies.  But again, it begins with you understanding what is the problem you’re trying to address – email marketing for example – and then from there, evaluating the different solutions.

[04:16]
Matthew: So, a key component of what you said is understanding the problem or the challenges that you’re trying to address; from what you’ve seen at Unica, what are some of the challenges that you feel marketers are faced with?

[04:27]
Paul: Sure.  Well, there’s a number of different challenges, I mean there’s a gamut of them depending on the industry or in the particular company.  It may be around increasing response rates.  And that’s a very broad and sweeping statement, but the response rates could be on email; it could be response rates to catalogues – a lot of our customers are using mailing catalogues.  How effectively are those tools generating response rates?  So, you know, can you increase your response rates? 

Then other questions: can we be more productive?  Can we run more campaigns with the same staff, kind of increasing velocity, another kind of challenge marketers would be faced with. 

Understanding more about your customer is another challenge I think many marketers have; understanding who’s buying, who’s not buying, why are they not buying, looking at that kind of a business challenge that companies would often run into.  Operationally, marketing departments can be from, you know, small – from five, ten, fifteen people – then at some companies they can be huge, many thousands of people in a marketing department.  Oftentimes our customers are challenged, and how do they manage the complexity of campaigns across different stovepipes?  So these would be all the different kinds of challenges you might have – improving productivity, improving response rates, understanding and managing activities better across the marketing department.

[05:54]
Matthew: So there’s a lot of information there and I had to take some notes down because I wanted to ask follow-up questions. 

So you mentioned response rates as kind of the number one challenge, and you mentioned a bunch of different vehicles.  At the top there was email marketing, and I think there’s been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of email marketing over time.  What are you seeing as kind of a broad trend with response rates with marketing?  Is it as useful as it used to be?  Because I think – I’m hearing that they may not be.

[06:23]
Paul: You know, again, it’
s going to vary significantly by the customer or the industries that you’re talking to.  From our own standpoint, email is a pretty effective marketing tool, but it really does come back to providing the right message to the customer, to the audience you’re after. The more effectively you can meet the need of that particular buyer, the higher your response rates are going to be. 

[06:46]
Matthew:  So, the right message is really  – if I could just take that a step further – is the one that they find the most useful?  Would you say that that’s right?

[06:54]
Paul: Yeah, yeah.

[06:55]
Matthew: And understanding that gets to one of the points that you mentioned earlier – is a challenge is simply understanding what those needs are. 

[07:01]
Paul: Exactly, I mean…

[07:02]
Matthew: And I think every marketer at some level knows they need to know more about their customers.  How can we do that?

[07:06]
Paul:  So, for example, and again, as we go through some of this, some of these things I’ll be talking about Unica – you know, we’re a $120 million a year, B-to-B software company.  But we have a lot of customers that are kind of very large B-to-C retail, financial services companies.

[07:24]
Matthew: Sure, sure.

[07:26]
Paul: So I’ll try to take care, when I’m answering, for who?  When I’m wearing my CMO hat.

[07:29]
Matthew: [laughs] Well, all marketing departments are wearing a lot of hats these days…

[07:33]
Paul: [laughs] That’s true.  They are. 

[07:34]
Matthew: …so you should be adept at that.

[07:35]
Paul: They are.  Um… the… I’m gonna lose my train of thought.

[07:39]
Matthew: [laughs] Sorry.

[07:41]
Paul:  So, from the standpoint of understanding customers, one of the things that we do is get a pretty good sense for what customers or prospects are viewing on the website.  What’s interesting to them?  We have products in different categories; we have web analytics products, we have campaign management products, we have marketing operations products that help you plan your marketing.  So by analyzing the places that people are working on the website or looking on the website, and the kind of products they’re downloading or information they’re downloading, that is a way that we can provide them with more relevant information, through email, in that particular case.

[08:20]
Matthew:  Excellent.  And then the last piece that I jotted down is increasing velocity, which gets back to what I just mentioned about, you know, marketing budgets are shrinking, especially in this tough economy that we’re all faced with, and marketers are trying to do a lot more with a lot less.  What are specific ways that you’ve seen, or that you yourself are increasing velocity within your team and your department?

[08:46]
Paul: Well, one of the ways would be to design an automated campaign so that you can define campaigns that are based on criteria will, you know, maybe an email campaign, that will run at a predetermined time to a predetermined audience, using a collection or a selection of different offers.  So by putting in that upfront effort to define your overall email strategy – who you’re targeting with which offers – you can pretty much automate then the delivery and the measurement in the email responses.  So instead of handcrafting each of those campaigns, doing a segmentation or a list-pull for each campaign, you can automate that process, to more easily and effectively deliver many different kinds of campaigns; in that example, an email campaign.

[09:31]
Matthew: So, again, a further example of marketers that embrace technology, can forget it, to use a phrase.

[09:36]
Paul: You know, it’s interesting; I just think as a marketer today, you really need to have a good understanding of all the technologies that are at your fingertips, and you don’t necessarily have to be able to get down deep into database design and the scheme instructions and such, but you have to have a pretty good sense…

[09:54]
Matthew:  I think all marketers, again, are challenged with keeping up to date with technology.  How do you do that?

[10:01]
Paul:  Um… [laughs] It is a challenge. 

[laughter]

We were talking about earlier, not only is it keeping up to date, but you know, it’s constantly changing and evolving.  Personally, from my standpoint, a lot of time reading; I have to try to keep abreast of what’s happening within my own kind of world context; networking – people that I know I try to keep in touch with different marketing organizations.  I find some of the analysts are pretty good at providing information on up-and-coming technologies…

[10:33]
Matthew: What kind of organizations do you think are worth the effort?  Because that takes time, right?  And time is limited.  In some of the organizations that I’ve either been a part of or networked with, there’s always that debate, ‘is this really worth my time getting out and going?’

[10:51]
Paul: You know, I guess I would find that in some respects – and I was thinking, ‘Who would I put on that list?’ – But top of that list would actually be my own personal network, which is kind of interesting.  It’s people that I’ve worked with, who I know are similar companies, who have similar challenges.  I have lists, I contact them, and I know them well enough so that I know how they’re going to reply.  So that, to me, doesn’t help your viewers right now, but for me it’s helpful.

[11:19]
Matthew: I think it’s helpful to understand that, as part of your marketing tool kit, the idea that people as a key component of that is very helpful.

[11:27]
Paul:  I mean I would actually say that you know, as much as I love technology and as much as I put that high on the list, the people you know, the networks you create, the information you can share is extremely important, so that to me, my own personal network is high. The CMO Club is good, it’s a small and growing organization which provides pretty good information.  As I mentioned I think a little while ago, Forester[sp] I think does a good job, more technically-oriented information.  And then there’s a number of journals and a variety of other things you can look at.

[11:58]
Matthew:  Ok, excellent.  I just wanted to remind everyone that we are live, and you should be tweeting your questions to the @PTV Live hash tag. I’ll be monitoring them over here, and we’ll get your questions answered.

But I wanted to move on to our next topic, which is an article that I read from Real SEO Video Blog[sp], that states simply, “Without video, your website will not rank in Google.”  And the person who’s making the statement is a gentleman by the name of Bruce Clay[sp], who says, “A year from now,” – so this is a predictive comment – “A year from now, if you don’t have video, if you don’t have engagement objects on your website, you’re just not gonna rank.”

[12:37]
Paul:  Well I think that the important word there is ‘engagement objects’.  It may be video.  And I think more and more, we marketers are looking for ways for, especially as content becomes extremely important – people are looking for information that helps them do their jobs better.  Engaging with your customers and prospects, giving them a reason to visit your site or sites that you’re associated with, is important, whether that be a survey, whether that be a demo of your product, or whether that be a customer testimonial, or whether that be a video. 
So, it may be. 

I think video is – and he’s supposed to be quite good at what he does – video will be an increasingly important component of maximizing your search rankings.  But I think ultimately, you’ve got to make sure that the tools and techniques that you’re using work for your audience and your customer.  So, video is probably very applicable and very helpful for customer testimonials. 

[12:34]
Matthew: Sure.

[12:35]
Paul: We use video to try to convey the excitement that happens at our user conferences, so they get a sense for the networking, and the interactions.  But there are other activities where it is actually just simpler to read the product list and kind of look down the system requirements.  So, I think first and foremost you want to make sure that video is the right tool to use for the message and the audience, and I do think that, as your comment on engagement objects – increasingly important that you find ways broadly to interact with your customers, and doing that in ways that’s providing them information as you’re interacting.

[14:11]
Matthew:  Absolutely, that phrase ‘engagement objects’ definitely caught my eye.  I think there’s a lot of discussion lately about ‘engagement marketing’, and that word is definitely turning into a bit of a buzzword.  But at the same time, I think it’s rooted in the sense of yeah, this is what we need to do here – we need to go beyond flat text on a page and downloading my case study as we fill out the big form.  It’s more than that – it’s the give and the get of understanding who the buyer is or the customer persona, visitor persona; and getting, engaging, in smaller chunks.

[14:46]
Paul: Exactly.  We use the phrase ‘interactive marketing’ as this broad umbrella statement of ‘What does it mean to engage?’ or ‘ How do you engage with your customer in a way that you’re aware of your customer, not only of their particular history, but the particular context in which they’re engaging, you know, in the call center, on the web – how do you engage with the customer and then provide them, ideally in real time, the information that’s most applicable to them, regardless of the channel that they’re operating on?’  So, yeah, very much this idea of engagement.

[15:18]
Matthew: So that engagement goes much broader than website activity?

[15:21]
Paul: Oh, absolutely.  I mean, you think about it, right – your expectation, as a consumer, is that you are understood as an individual, whether you’re on the phone or you’re on the web.  So that’s a lot of work for marketers, to build to kind of work across the silos that we have in marketing to have a more unified customer experience.

[15:39]
Matthew: And again, those silos are the different departments in your organization…

[15:43]
Paul: Yeah.

[15:43]
Matthew: …that, as a marketer, getting access to the customer service data, getting access to what’s in the CRM, you know, that may not be as easy as you might think for some folks, and in order to paint that picture of true engagement, you need…

[15:57]
Paul: Exactly.  Exactly.

[15:57]
Matthew: …you’re going to have to get the systems and things to help you do that.

I mentioned just now CRM; I would like to talk a little bit about an article I read called, “The Importance Video in Sales 2.0.”  ‘Sales 2.0’ is a topic that we’ve really become focused on in this show, talked about it for a number of weeks now, and essentially, there’s an article – let me pull it up here – I’m a little far behind in my notes here – “The next generation of sales reps are using technology to grab mindshare through surrounding prospects with helpful content.”  That sentence kind of smacks into what we just talked about, is understanding the context in which they’re in, and then surrounding them with the helpful content.  You know, we are a video platform, so I have to throw out the line here that says, “video presentations are the easiest way to surround your customer.”

Let’s start first with your company, with Unica – How are you guys using video to not only attract an audience on your marketing programs and on your website, but maybe on the sales side?  Is that something that you are doing?  Have thought about doing?  Haven’t thought about it until just now and thought maybe you’d like to?

[17:10]
Paul: [sarcastically] Oh my God.  Yup! 

[laughter]

No, no, we have thought a little bit about it, and again it’s a long list of things to work on.  So, we have used, we do use video around our customer testimonials, we find that to be a good way to kind of convey what customer has done with our products and with Unica, and the benefits.  Those tools we make available to the sales team.  So it’s almost as if we’re thinking of, ‘What’s the message we’re trying to convey?  What’s the right vehicle to channel it, vehicle to use?’

[17:39]
Matthew: What media, yup.

[17:41]
Paul: And then whether that’s delivered by a sales rep or online is secondary.  Now that may not be the right way to think about it, but I’d say then that’s where we are right now.

[17:51]
Matthew: I think it’s a great way to think about it.  Part of what marketing’s function is, is to provide the relevant messaging and the sales kits for your sales team, and again, however that media is likely to be consumed, a marketing department needs to create that, whether it’s PowerPoints, audio Podcasts, video.  So, that’s good news to hear!

[18:14]
Paul: And we’ll be doing more, because for some of our newer products which are by nature quite visual – the online marketing stuff, products that we have for web personalization, email marketing – I think there’s an increasing expectation that people can see the product; they want to understand it’s uses, not only hearing from a happy customer, but they also want to get a sense of how it’s being used.

[18:34]
Matthew: And you had mentioned earlier on the program, you know, video and other engagement objects should only be used where appropriate, and for companies that have a high-tech or difficult to explain product or service, video might be the right way to do it.

[18:48]
Paul: Yeah, it can be a really good way to do it.  A really good way to do it.  And we’ve actually begun doing some videos on YouTube that are a little more snippets, kind of little informational, as practices type of things.

[18:56]
Matthew: OK.  How have you found the response rate?

[18:59]
Paul: Eh, pretty good, pretty good.  But again, that particular use of YouTube is a little new for us, but so far, response has been pretty good.

[19:09]
Matthew: Alright, staying within the sales and social media track for a second, let me talk a little bit about Social CRM.  So this is a tool that can be used as part of a Sales 2.0 strategy.  There has been an emergence of Social CRMs lately; one of them is this company, Buzzstream[sp].  I wanted to understand, how is Unica – or if you want to talk a little more about clients in this regard – how are you seeing social media being used not only for marketing and brand listening and some of the more typical ways or traditional ways of using social media…

[19:44]
Paul: [laughs] Tradition, yeah, four months of tradition there, six months of tradition there.

[19:47]
Matthew: How much of it is being used by reps?  How often are sales reps saying ‘Look, if I want to make a connection with a potential company, maybe it’s smart to use LinkedIn, or maybe it’s smart to use Tw
itter, to sort of get in there?’

[20:01]
Paul: So, you asked a lot of questions there.

[20:04]
Matthew: OK. Pick one…

[20:07]
Paul: I’ll start with social media overall.  As I think about our customers, I would say that the majority of our customers are in kind of the experimentation phase – the early adopter phase.  There is a question of, ‘How do I measure it?  How do I best use it?’  I think there’s an understanding that it’s important as a vehicle to share information and encourage information about you – your company, your products, your brand – to be shared, but the way people are engaging social media kind of runs the gamut across our different customers.  In our own company, from the standpoint of our sales guys, most of them are using LinkedIn as a way to do a little bit more research on their prospects, and some of them are using Twitter as a way to follow specific individuals that they’re interested in, as another technique to kind of learn more about their potential customers.

[12:08]
Matthew: Excellent.  And I wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about a question that Seth Goden[sp] posed.  I actually asked this of our guest last week, Steven DeMarcos[sp], the CMO of Compete[sp], and I liked it so much that I wanted to apply it again this week.  You know, for all of us in marketing, Seth Goden[sp] is one of the gold standards, and Seth’s got a lot of short, picky blog posts, kind of your ‘thought of the day.’ 

Here’s the ‘thought of the day’ from Seth – “How do you overwhelm people with delight worth remarking about related to your brand?”  And I know that you just completed a major brand redesign, changeup or overhaul, improvement, and with that came a new website, so, how did you incorporate that desire to “overwhelm people with delight” as you went through this process?  Tell me about that process.

[22:02]
Paul: That’s kind of a softball question for Unica.  For years, the mission of the company has been empowering customer success.  And that is, you know, what we do, we believe very strongly that our goal is to ensure that our customers are successful with our services, our products and solutions.  This is the first company I’ve worked for that actually has a group called ‘customer success’.  All they do is kind of make outreaches to our customers, make sure they’re happy, they’re connecting with them on different opportunities to work with us.  So, we as a company work very hard to power or to ensure the success of our customers.  And I think we have a pretty good reputation for that; if you look at our customer list, if you look on our references, if you look at our case studies, we have a lot of very happy customers. 

Now how we go about doing that, it really comes down to every interaction.  Every product that we ship, every customer service interaction that we have is really dedicated to make sure that the customer is satisfied.  We’re not perfect, there are always …

[23:06]
Matthew: Nobody is.

[23:07]
Paul: Yup.  But I think that the folks that I’ve met are quite dedicated to making sure that the customer is satisfied. 

Now, in the re-branding that you just mentioned, one of the things that we heard from our customers is that we’re very good at what I just described, when it comes to our technology, and they’re looking for a little more.  So it’s like, how do you help us be more successful as marketers overall?  How do you help us learn from what you’ve learned, build better solutions, better user products?  So, we’ve tried to weave that into brand, which is the tagline, ‘Marketing success starts with U’, the letter ‘U’, the double play with ‘U’ for Unica as well as ‘you,’ the marketer; and then we’ve built this idea of ‘you the marketer’ into the website, providing more resource information, information on the marketer’s role, as ways that we’re trying to help them be more successful, beyond just our technology, but also how can they use our technology, how can they learn from others.

[24:00]
Matthew: So there’s a lot there about engagement, and about community, and providing relevant, useful content.  I think that all of those things are implied in how you’re shaping the brand going forward. And you recently brought a new logo to life. 

[24:16]
Paul:  Our new logo, yup.  Yup.

[24:17]
Matthew: As a marketer, you know we all have to talk about the design process of logo creation.  How did you go about that?  And some of that sometimes seems like a black magic or voodoo art, but how did that process go for you?

[24:30]
Paul: We used – I’ll put a little plug in for the agency we used – a company called Raincastle[sp], they’re based here in Newton[sp], Massachusetts.  They were very good.  The process we went through was we interviewed some of our customers; we tried to get to the essence of what we stand for and want to shift the image a little bit, because company brand is not based on the logo.  It’s not the logo.  The company brand is a instantiation or a representation of what you do, what your brand is.  So the logo itself was part of a much bigger process about what do we stand for?  What do we want to stand for?  Where are we going?  The agency helped. 

And then it was just a lot of collaborative work looking at ways to really build on this concept of, it’s about the conversations and the interactions that you, our customers, have with your customers.  And we want to enable you, our customers, to have interactions, more powerful and meaningful interactions, with your customers.  So we felt the little speech bubble was a way to kind of connote the idea of interacting conversations happening not only between us and our customers, but between our customers and their customers.

[25:39]
Matthew: So again, it’s engaging, it’s community, it’s starting a big dialogue with all parties involved.  And there’s listening there. I mean I think…

[25:46]
Paul: Yup, absolutely.

[25:47]
Matthew: …that’s also implied with the speech bubble, is that if someone’s talking, someone should be listening.

[25:51]
Paul: Absolutely.  Absolutely.

[25:53]
Matthew: Let’s talk a little bit about –the final question that I have is, you’ve mentioned several times that ‘we’ve asked our customers’ or, you know, ‘you need to ask your customers’ and know how to know what your customers need.  What are some tips or tools that you can give marketers out there to do that?  Also understanding all the things we talked about with regard to increasing velocity, and not having enough time, and decreasing budgets, because that can be a labor-intensive process, but at the same time, without that, you’re starting with nothing again, and you may not be successful.

[26:27]
Paul: There’s a lot of different techniques that can be used for that.  We, for brand research, used a combination of qualitative research, which is basically calling up customers and talking to them, I mean it’s a very open-ended, and you draw for that, and you talk to a couple dozen customers and you begin to get a sense for what their issues are.  Now it’s a bit of an arduous process, from the standpoint of you need to spend an hour with each customer, but you really get a richness of information from those type of interactions with your customers.

[26:58]
Matthew: So, by saying that first, as the first way, I would imply that that is the best way to do it.  Am I hearing that? 

[27:04]
Paul: Yup.  Well…

[27:06]
>Matthew: You’ve got to talk to customers.

[27:08]
Paul: Well, you absolutely have to talk to customers, and in fact should be part of what we’re all doing as marketers as often as we can, but what I just described can also be expensive.  So at the other end of the spectrum, there’s a lot of tools that can be used from the standpoint of web surveys, and developing surveys where you can get a broader reach into the hundreds of thousands of respondents.  We are trying to get a more quantitative view on a much more defined set of questions.  You want to understand, like the survey I mentioned earlier, what’s the number one challenge you have as a web analyst, or with your web analytics tools?  You can get very discreet answers in that. That’s very different than having a discussion with somebody who does full-time job as a web analytics person, and getting from them kind of what keeps them up at night.  You learn different things.

[27:54]
Matthew: So a little bit of both. 

[27:55]
Paul: Yeah.

[27:56]
Matthew: A little bit of both.  Well, thank you very much, Paul.  That’s all the time we have for now.  I just wanted to say that I definitely enjoyed our conversation…

[28:02]
Paul:  Me too.

[28:03]
Matthew: …and thanks for taking the trip over.

[28:05]
Paul:  I appreciate that.

[28:06]
Matthew: Just wanted to remind everyone that we’re always interested in your feedback.  Please subscribe to iTunes at permissiontv.com/itunes and leave us a rating, tell us how we’re doing.  And, I wanted to let everyone know that tonight, Permission TV will be attending and demo-ing our technology at Tech Cocktail 3[sp], the event in downtown Boston.  Please come by and say hi, we’re going to be giving out free T-shirts…

[28:29]
Paul: Free T-shirts!

[28:29]
Matthew: … so, hope to see you there.  Paul, how can people connect with you after the show?

[28:32]
Paul: The easiest way is just to email me: pmcnulty@unica.com.

[28:37]
Matthew:  Great.  Next Thursday we have tech venture entrepreneur Mike Troyano[sp] on the show, so stay tuned for that.  Thanks and have a great week, everybody!  Please follow me @msmamet on Twitter, and we’ll see you next Thursday at 3pm.  Bye-bye, everybody.

[28:50]
Paul: Thanks.