Being an accountable CMO

[00:06]
Mathew: Hello and welcome!  Today is June 25th, 2009, and you’re watching PTV, live!  Great.  My name is Matthew Mamet, I’m the director of product marketing at Permission TV, and I’m MSMamet on Twitter, and with me is Frank Days, managing partner of Tangy Sliced Partners. Welcome to the show.

[00:28]
Frank: Thank you, Matthew.

[00:29]
Matthew: It’s great to have you here.  We want everyone who’s watching to talk to us on Twitter, you can tweet your questions to the PTV Live hash tag, and we’ll answer your questions live on the show.  So again, thank you for being on the show!  We had first met at a Tweet-Up, I think it was the Puma City one?

[00:48]
Frank: Yes, Social Media Boston Tweet-Up in the summertime.

[00:50]
Matthew: Yep, and I had seen you speak at Social Media Breakfast once before, so I was really excited to get you on the show and to talk a little bit about social media, online video, and one of the things I really liked about what you brought to those events is that you really focused on measurement, which is hugely important if you’re in marketing, so I’m looking forward to picking your brain about stuff-

[01:12]
Frank: Great, great.

[01:12]
Mathew: -like that. For the rest of you out there, we wanted to make sure that we were having future shows that met your needs.  One of the things that we talked about is, are we talking about the right things, should we be talking about different things, so to give us some info that will help us make the show better we started a survey, and if you fill out the survey, and fill out some of that information, you can get a free USB drive, so, to thank you for your time.

[01:41]
Frank: Show ‘em the USB drive.

[01:42]
Matthew: This is the USB drive that Frank said that even he would not wear, which is a bracelet USB drive, so there you go, you can do that, there you go, your little Permission TV, your little USB drive, so John will tweet out the link how you can get to the survey, it’s only like seven questions, so we’d really appreciate your time and it would definitely help us craft future shows to make them better so feel free to so that, but today we have Frank, so Frank, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

[02:13]
Frank: Sure, thank you Matthew.  Well, for the last ten years I’ve been a CMO, chief marketing officer, as well as COO of a number of technology companies as well as I recently was a chief operating officer at firstgiving.com, an online business that worked with nonprofit organizations, an interesting opportunity, and learned quite a bit about how leverage these online media channels to help grow a business, in this case recruiting nonprofits to tease another business.  At Tangy Slice Partners, my clients are primarily technology companies.

[02:42]
Matthew: Okay.

[02:43]
Frank: So working with an advertising agency as well as like a software, data-quality software company, and some other firms.  And it’s really been trying to help them get past the standard marketing mix of white papers, webinars, and paid search, and really use and explore these online channels, particularly social media channels to improve the generation and search engine performances.

[03:05]
Matthew: So, are you finding that your clients are eagerly trying to get beyond what they’re traditionally comfortable with, or are you trying to kind of push them, coax them down the path to maybe a new model of marketing?

[03:19]
Frank: I don’t know if it’s eager is the right word.

[03:21]
Matthew: Okay.

[03:21]
Frank: But I think the word is more that, that they’re kinda, and we talked about this before the show, that they were kinda two different groups that I talk to, one is people who are really anxious and enthusiastic and embracing it and going out and reading Mashable every day and really trying to figure it out and don’t need a lot of help from a third party or someone like me.  And then they’re the group, the other group which feels like the world has changed around them, they’re laggards, their programs aren’t performing like they once did, and they’re looking at social media and these new channels as a way to improve the performance of those programs.

Matthew:  And now, you know, I think for anyone who’s been in marketing for the past year or two at a bare minimum, we’ve seen that some of those programs like social media are not only seen as ways to get… improve performance on traditional campaigns but maybe even like a silver bullet to just kind of magically fix all the marketing problems that we have, and I know that… I know that that’s something that you’ve picked up on, and you’ve started this group of folks, and you’ve called yourselves the Skeptical CMOs, and tell us a little bit about what is a skeptical CMO, and what problems does it seek to solve?
[04:24]
Frank: Sure, so The Skeptical CMO and friends is a crowd sourced radio show that I perform with some groups and some folks that I’ve met over the last six months, and the idea was, we’ve had so many great conversations with people about new media and social media; why not capture that information in the form of a radio show as well as a podcast series?  So we assembled a group of… myself, playing the role of Skeptical CMO, hosting these regular events, in this case we started as a webinar and recently ran our last one last week as a radio show successfully, and we’ve got a couple of agency people, a couple of social media proponents, and then a couple of community builders. The idea is to bring in some diverse voices, and have some conversations, you know, real world conversations, about the practical value of these channels rather than acting like we’ve all drank the Kool-Aid and we’re all blindly faithful in the performance of these channels, but have real conversations, often times from a business-to-business angle, rather than from a business-to-consumer angle.  One of our attendees is Paige Arnof-Fenn of Mavens and Moguls, a very well connected person, has a sixty-person virtual marketing agency, but not on Twitter, only on LinkedIn, no Facebook account, very much, not a Luddite, but someone who understands technology but is not… has not yet drank of the Kool-Aid.  So, we have some pretty interesting conversations, you know, and the theme was to bring together a diverse group of people and crowd source it so we don’t have… we each, we get together, divide up the work and go from there.

[06:02]
Matthew: What was the subject of the last show that you did?

[06:05]
Frank: Sure, so the topic we did was talked about ‘Are You a Lagger,’ or the benefit of being a lagger in the social media world.  And it’s an interesting conversation, because it’s something, it’s a conversation that I have with many friends and perspective clients that the buzz is deafening from many quarters of this world, that everything is social media and inbound marketing today, and if you’re not on top of it fully you’re far far behind.  So we spent forty-five minutes talking a lot about, what are the benefits of being a lagger? You know, the cliché being that you can often tell the pioneers by they’re the ones with the arrows in their back.  And sometimes the smart follower actually has a lot of advantages in moving forward technologies.

[06:47]
Matthew: So the take away I’m hearing is that, you know, just because it’s new and shiny and a lot of attention doesn’t mean that you should run headlong into it, but understand you know, what your business objectives are and create a plan that can be measured and then execute on that?

[07:05]
Frank: I like… I like new shiny things, I’ve always been that way in my career, but-
/>[07:08]
Matthew: Well, we have something for you then, Frank!

[07:11]
Frank: That is fine.

[07:12]
Matthew: Congratulations!

[07:13]
Frank: Thanks, that is… that is, this actually would be quite practical if you guys can get one at home.  I’ve always been a big fan of new, shiny things but I’ve always been someone to make kind of the person out there selling it nuts because I’ve always been a firm believer in trying as many things as you can but try it as cheaply as possible, and you’re right, have a pretty clear set of metrics that you want to do, understand what your business goals are and then don’t… try to minimize your risk by trying it cheaply and if it doesn’t work, kill it and try the next thing.

[07:42]
Matthew:  Okay.  So, question that I’ve got to ask you, I follow you on Twitter, I’ve followed you for a little while now under the name of Tangy Slice and that’s the name of your blog and that’s the name… where did that come from, what’s Tangy Slice all about, just…?

[07:55]
Frank: I could tell you the… there are two stories to it, one was that a colleague of mine, we were looking for… we were looking for product names for a company I worked for in the database marketing field company, a company named Genalytics, which is still up in the north shore still going strong, and Tangy Slice was one of the names that came up, and then after that it became a kind of a running joke that Tangy Slice, if this technology marketing thing didn’t work out, I could become a white rapper and walk in the footsteps of Vanilla Ice under the name of Tangy Slice.  So the regular readers of my blog will often see some of the failed references to Slice and my family, Mrs. Slice at home and Baby Slice, who is also at home.

[08:34]
Matthew: Awesome.  I like that name even more now that I know the backstory.

[08:38]
Frank: The other story is that it became a really good name for the theme because it really represents, kind of ‘tangy’ being my somewhat contrary and often skeptical view of new technologies and the way things work and ‘slice’ is, I tend to write in bulleted lists, being trained as a chemist and finished as an MBA, I tend to think in terms of bulleted lists and small slices of data.  Hence, Tangy Slice.

[09:00]
Matthew: Cool.  Next question is related specifically to online video.  I know that a lot of what you do is, you know, social media and traditional digital marketing.  How do you see online videos fitting into that mix?  We talked a little bit about it when we were preparing for the show.  Do you see that as kind of a third element to a digital marketing mix, part of a social media?  Like, how does that… how do you see it fitting in when you’re working and advising clients today?

[09:28]
Frank: Well, you know, my clients are, I definitely talk to them about kind of three things, I talk about kind of the channels or places where they need presence, then we talk about content, and then we’ll talk often about engagement, or ways to engage the people out there, so I mean, certainly being on the right channels is important, but if you don’t have anything to share, you know content often being the currency, to, you know the way to open conversations and the way to engage people, within that content, leg of the stool, video’s a pretty important part, you know, if you think about the kinds of things that people have available to them, particularly in the business to business realm in the software company you have webinars which are often a pretty common thing, recording that webinar can be a pretty valuable thing, both as a podcast as a steamed piece of content live, which I always advocate people to do things live like we’re doing today, and then as a recorded, as a piece of video which people can come back to later on.

[10:21]
Matthew: Excellent.

[10:21]
Frank: The next piece can be things like recordings of product demos and capturing your bests product experts live, or capturing them in a way that is fungible, that is out there and sharable.

[10:33]
Matthew: Cool.  Excellent, I meant I think you know you’re talking to the converted here, but I’d love to get some opinions from the folks that are watching the show out there. You can tweet to the PTV Live hash tag, and again ask us questions, but more importantly, you know, we’d like to ask you some questions and get your response.  What do you see as the importance of online video and this b to b space, I think that that social media and sometimes even online video, in terms of like the viral videos have such a big presence in the b to c space, but how do we take advantage of the engagement power of those mediums specifically for b to b?  Love to hear you thoughts on that.  I’ll ask you; what do you think are some good examples of online video in use in the b to b space, whether it’s something that you’ve had a hand in or something that’s local or national, or you know, where have you seen online video in the b to b space be effective as a form of engagement?

[11:30]
Frank: I think it often comes, it comes back to the point I was trying to make a couple of minutes ago, it’s trying to take your best products or service experts and trying to capture their knowledge.  In any technology company there often there’s a product manager, product marketing manager, director or product manager, like yourself, who knows a tremendous amount about the market, about the product, about the pricing, about the users, about the… you know, really have a big broad view of what’s going on and can share the vision with the market place, so capturing those guys on video is pretty important.  I’m also, I’m a really big fan of product demos, I just always found, you know, in one of my previous experiences leading marketing in a software firm that sold data quality software, our product demos were one of our best… out product demos were one of our best lead generation tools.  People, you know, you could tell a story pretty quickly, in a couple of minute, walk them through the product, and then whether you decide to put the call to action before the video or after the video, you know, you can put that lead capture form in there, and you’re getting a lead that’s more than just a name and an address, but you actually have a name and a phone number, you get someone who’s actually heard a little bit of your story and has a little bit more than a passing interest in what you’re doing.

[12:44]
Matthew: I mean I think all too often folks like myself that are in the online marketing world, they look at all those names that come in off your white papers or your webinars and you look at them like, oh I’ve created gold for the sales team, I’ve created this gold, and then you hear you know the other side say, oh we’ve created some good suspects here, but how do we, how do we get them to be more than just a name?

[13:07]
Frank: Yeah.

[13:07]
Matthew: How do we get them to be more than just a number?  And I think, you know, video can be a part of that, part of the answer to that.

[13:14]
Frank: I’ve worked in some places where we’ve had some really, really tight closed loop CRM systems, so we can take the lead, you know, have a really narrow promotion code for the lead so we can know it came in through the demo on the web site, or came through a webinar that happened in January, so we’ve been able to connect the dots as well as figuring out in the sales process who, who actually is the decision maker versus who was the influencer so we can connect, we can connect opportunities together, get a deeper sense of it.  And in my experience, the video content, particularly webinars and webinar archives were not necessarily the original primary lead generat
ion source, but they had tremendous value as a lead nurturing tool.  So…

[13:54]
Matthew: I’ve seen them as a great way to activate leads as well, so I mean if leads have been in your system and you know you’re trying to figure out a way to spark that interest, you know, webinars are a great way to get a dormant lead kind of turn them on, get them to come back and start asking questions.

[14:10]
Frank: I would always joke, you know, in the business I was in, the CIO was often at the most impossible person to get as a part of the purchasing process, yet that person was a gatekeeper, that was a checkbox you needed to get.  We’re selling in this case to retail companies, you had to have the CIO sign off to get that product sold.  Yet… you could never get them on the phone, and they would either not answer the phone.  I’m not saying I never did that, okay I’ve done that before, or they would have someone in between them so, the interesting thing is, send them a link, an invitation to a webinar, or one of the other…

[14:41]
Matthew: More personal…

[14:41]
Frank: You’re champion in the organization sends the video to them, what do you know they make a mistake and actually tune in and listen.  They don’t have to deal with the sales person, they can just come in, during lunch, eat their lunch, watch the video, capture the demo, and make a decision relatively quickly.

[14:57]
Matthew: Yeah, I think the value of video with multitasking, with your audience multitasking is huge.  You know, I’d like to believe that everyone who’s watching us right now has eyes focused right on their computer screen and hands at the ready on their keyboard to tweet us questions, but in reality they’re probably multitasking.

[15:16]
Frank: You know what they’re saying out there right now, they’re probably saying, ‘gee that Frank has a fine haircut that he just got this morning.’

[15:20]
Matthew: Now he does have a fine haircut, and I appreciate that you recognize the importance of coming on the show, and you wore a jacket and you got cleaned up and you know… great guest, great guest.

[15:31]
Frank: I do try, I do try.

[15:33]
Matthew: How about some bad examples of video?  I mean, we talked about what you should be doing, anything that you’ve seen or heard of that you might want to stay away from, any gulches or potholes for those who are…?

[15:43]
Frank: I won’t name names, but you know, the common thing, and the stereotypical thing is, and this is the sales versus marketing tension that always goes on with the new organization, so sales want… you know, marketing wants to simplify the story to the three to five most important points, while in a perfect world, technology marketers want to simple the message down, you know, dumb the message down and make sure the key message points get through.  Sales person on the other hand wants the entire story to be told to the prospect, so the sales person doesn’t have to tell the whole story for the thirtieth time this week to a prospect, so some of the more challenging videos that I’ve seen in demos have been, you know, an example was a twenty-eight minute product walkthrough, with every narrow little microfeature within a product.  You know, the fact is that the most… here you talk to people in the podcasting world, and even in the video world, they’ll tell you keep it to three minutes, five minutes, seven minutes, try to keep it under ten minutes.  Because the, you know, for people like me who watched too many Brady Bunch reruns as a kid, you know, my attention span just isn’t there.  You know, so…

[16:45]
Matthew: Ditto.

[16:46]
Frank: As an executive, you’re busy, you know.

[16:48]
Matthew: Right.

[16:49]
Frank: They’re very interrupt driven, how long is that CIO going to watch that video before some stinking pile of you-know-what gets put on his desk that he has to deal with? 

[16:58]
Matthew: Sure:

So you don’t have that much time to tell your story, so you need to keep it short and snappy and to the point.

[17:03]
Matthew: So, great advice, you know, definitely video content should be… snackable, is a term that we’ve used here in the past.

[17:11]
Frank: Great term.

[17:11]
Matthew:  You know, have the… give the opportunity for your execs to just snack on the pieces that they want. There’s no reason why you can’t have a twenty-eight minute demo, but just make sure that it’s in palatable chunks and clearly delineated so that if the CIO wants to skip to the, you know, the total cost of ownership, or the way that it can integrate with your CRM system they can get to those pieces-

[17:34]
Frank: No question about it.

[17:35]
Matthew: And then get out.  So, great advice there.  You know, the last question that I have before I wanted to talk a little bit about our next topic which is a report from Forbes, is on your blog you do have a lot of great advice for being an accountable CMO which I think is a great term that I hadn’t heard that before I read it on your blog, so I guess you coined it?  Yes.

[17:59]
Frank: I’d like to-

[18:00]
Matthew: Right here right now, I’ll give you credit for coining it.

[18:02]
Frank: I’d like to think of it, it’s been , you know, it’s been in the chatter, I don’t know that I can claim it as mine, but accountability is a topic, and talking with some of my agency friends, and if you read some of the industry trades you’ll see accountability is a big, is a big… a meme, as you would call it today in the marketing world.

[18:18]
Matthew: So being an accountable CMO, what is your advice to those folks in the b-to-b marketing space who are watching this program and they want to begin putting video in?  I mean, I think we’ve talked a little bit about types of content they can approach, you know, product demo might be a good place to start, getting your best spokespeople in video, what about advice on creating a program, you know, how do we… how do we make sure that not only do we have the right content, but we have the right program in place to measure the results?  Any advice on that?

[18:52]
Frank: Yeah, I think online video has really a distinct advantage over, say… a dimensional direct mail piece that I drop, so you do have the ability to track whether it’s through promotion codes, or whether it’s through, you know, forms that people can fill out at the end.  I think any program for it to be accountable really starts with setting pretty clear goals at the beginning of the program.  Having a pretty clean idea of what you’re trying to achieve and then setting very… creating very indisputable metrics of success.

[19:23]
Matthew: Okay.

[19:24]
Frank: And then coming back and, you know, in the b to b marketing world we… people often talk about you know, cost per lead which is, you know, sort of half way there.  It definitely at least gives you a sense of from a benchmark standpoint, but the truth of the matter is if you don’t have a closed loop CRM system, if you don’t have the ability to take that lead and connect it through to a transaction at the end, you’re not doing your whole job.  Without that connection to… without that connection to a sale, and I’ll give you an interesting example, I’ve done a number of white paper programs in my career with some of the more popular software white paper download sites, and I won’t name names, but anyone who’s done technology and software marketing knows who these sites are, and I think the first day I signed up, it was a cost per lead and they guaranteed me a minimum, and I think the first wee
kend… the first forty-eight hours that we had this program running we got two hundred and fifty leads, which you know, we had been expecting two hundred and fifty leads in the whole program, and as my telesales team started to whittle its way down through this list, we found out that, you know, the preponderance of grad students, professors in India, and random tire kickers and consultants… making fun of myself here for a second, but, the unqualified background noise on those leads was really… the background noise was very high, so I guess that in a nutshell you need to be thinking not about activity but results.  And that means picking your metrics that… I’m not adverse to activity-based metrics, but at the end of the day to be truly an accountable marketer you need to be thinking about results-based metrics.

[20:59}
Matthew: So, you know, two hundred and fifty leads is great, but you know, two sales is better.

[21:03]
Frank: Exactly, exactly.

[21:05]
Matthew: Excellent.  So, I wanted to spend a couple of minutes talking about this report that came out from Forbes.  I read about it on… I think it was NewTV.  ‘The Rise of the Digital C Suite: How Executives Locate and Filter Business Information.’  Which I thought was incredibly apropos to some of the topics that we had already put together for this show, and basically the report was… it was produced by Forbes in conjunction with Google, and they surveyed 354 top executives at large US companies, large meaning greater than a billion dollars in sales, and they wanted to find out how the C suite is looking for information, what tools are they using, and then they grouped them by three generational groups, so they called the first group the Wang generation, so that’s the older generation, and then the next generation was the PC generation, and then the final generation was the Netscape generation, so Netscape generation is… is not quite digital natives, but is just a little bit more familiar with online tools.  Here’s what they found, interesting stuff, the internet is the C suite’s top information resource.  I would’ve been very surprised if it wasn’t. 

[22:27]
Frank: Makes sense, yeah.

[22:29]
Matthew: They don’t delegate their research, they do it themselves.  And then surprise, video and online networks are emerging as primary C suite tools.  So things like steaming video, webcasts, and similar formats are increasing in prevalence, especially among executives under fifty.  Similarly, although most executives prefer personal contacts, they’re increasingly willing to network and seek advice through online communities.  So, there’s a lot of great information in the report, and John will tweet out the link so you can all get it, it’s a free report, but essentially the parts that I wanted to talk a little bit more about were the online video and the social community part.  And what they found in this report is that as the generation gap gets younger and younger, the prevalence to use online tools gets higher and higher.  And they saw that things like Twitter and social media have a great penetration in that middle generation, the PC generation.  That’s something that when we talked about this report you had agreed with.  And online video is a little bit lower than hat, and they basically are predicting that as time goes on, you know,  that rising tides is going to lift all those boats, and online video will be, here’s the line, online video will only become more and more widespread as an information source as new generations move into the C suite.  So companies are working hard now to deliver high-value business-to-business content via this format of online video.  Is this kind of ‘duh, of course,’ or is this… I mean…

[24:14]
Frank: Well, let me ask a slightly tangential question, and that is…

[24:15]
Matthew: Okay, sure.

[24:16]
Frank: What are the barriers, what are the historical barriers, to people doing a lot of video online?  You know, I think, I’ll give you an example…

[24:23]
Matthew: Let’s ask, let’s first ask our audience.  Tweet us, PTV Live, if you’re not using video but have thought about doing it, what have been the reasons why you haven’t done it?  Love to get them to answer that question for you.

[24:35]
Frank: That’s a, that’s a great question, that’s a great question.

[24:37]
Matthew: I think, from our point, you know, we’ve been, this company has kind of gone through a few different paths over the past few years, I think that you cannot deny that in the past year and a half to two years the cost of producing video has really-

[24:54]
Frank: Yeah.

[24:54]
Matthew: Plummeted, and I think the cost could be the number one reason why people don’t-

[24:59]
Frank: Yeah.

[24:59]
Matthew:  -Marketers especially don’t do anything. Or, why they don’t do some particular thing because of the cost.  So when the costs go down, you know, we can, we can do a live widescreen video format very cheaply.

[25:13]
Frank: Yeah, I mean there’s… I definitely would agree cost is one of the big plays, I mean, I just wanted to give a shout out to, I actually was reading on marketing, the Marketing Prof’s Daily Fix blog the other day, a post by Mike O’Toole, who’s a colleague of mine and also a member of the Skeptical CMO group, he was kind of likening marketing using two sort of metaphors to describe marketing today.  One is a historical view, which is marketing is like ballet or figure skating, the other is marketing is becoming increasingly like hockey, and historically marketers, you know, if you’re thinking about, you’re creating a magazine ad or a television commercial, you’re going to treat it like it’s a figure skating routine; you get two minutes on the ice at the Olympics that you’re prepared four years for and you only get one shot so it’s got to be perfect.  Whereas, when you get online today, you have so many more attempts at what you’re doing that it’s much more like a hockey game, you get out there, you get as much content in front of your audience, you don’t need to-

[26:12]
Matthew: Make as much contact as you can?

[26:14]
Frank: Yeah, make as much contact as you can, maybe a little over sharing in the process, but the point is that the hockey metaphor is really particularly apt.  So, Skeptical CMO, we did the first one, you know, in a two week we went from zero to an event with a hundred people in two weeks. 

[26:29]
Matthew: Great.

[26:29]
Frank: From concept to event.  The first event we had, you know, I won’t lie to you, people who connected, we had some technical issues with audio, we had some different issues-

[26:37]
Matthew: But you know what, this is what I say to everyone who’s starting out, no one’s watching that first one anyways.  So don’t worry about it!

[26:41]
Frank: So the point was, that one went, the content was good, we had some technical issues.  The second time around, you know, we learned a whole bunch from that.

[26:49]
Matthew: Sure.

[26:50]
Frank: We, you know, we lined up a guy to do it as a streaming radio show and the show went off great.
   
[26:55]
Matthew: Excellent.

[26:55]
Frank: You know, the content improved, and the point I’m getting at using the hockey metaphor, you know next time around we shoot for, we’re lining up a brand-name CMO for the event and all of a sudden now you’ve gone from if we took, if we took the figure skating metaphor and decided we weren’t going to do the first Skeptical CMO show until it was perfect, we would probably be doi
ng it on September Fifteenth.

[27:16]
Matthew: And it still wouldn’t be perfect.

[27:17]
Frank: And it still wouldn’t be perfect.

[27:18]
Matthew: You gotta do it in order to practice to get to be better.

[27:21]
Frank: Exactly.  So using that in the video suite, I think there’s still a lot of expectations with video that it’s gotta be perfect, that it has to be, you know something that is done not with a consumer video camera in a studio that’s sitting in someone’s cubicle, but it’s gotta be done at a fine production studio.

[27:37:
Matthew: Like this one.

[27:38]
Frank: Like this one!  With, you know, an amazing, you know, when you look at the technology and where it’s at today it’s really amazing how easy it is to create high quality content at a really low cost.

[27:51]
Matthew: Awesome.  Just a couple of quick, some… data from this report.  Almost twenty-four percent of C level respondents said that they indicated a preference for retrieving business information via video.  So that’s a quarter of them, pretty much.  And then this great quote from Rob Shaddock the CTO for Tyco Electronics says, ‘when you’re dealing with complex concepts, it’s sometimes better to just stop talking and just use video.’  And I think you know, that’s one of the areas that I would say if you’re considering online video, you should consider how complex your topic really is, and if you’re selling semiconductors or if you’re selling ERP… you know data auditing software, or data quality software, the way that your system or your software works might be so complex that it’s just easier to get your engineer to just tell us on video rather than it is to try and create that, that marketecture and put it in the white paper, with all those boxes pointing in and out?

[28:51]
Frank: No question about it, and giving people different ways to access the content, you know, as much as video is really important, can you slice it and make a podcast out of it, can you take the transcript from it and create you know, text, which ultimately ends in a blog post, can you get, can you keep it in a lot of different formats?

[29:09]
Matthew: Awesome. This has been a great conversation, we definitely started talking about a lot of great concepts and you know what I think we’ve almost run out of time here so we won’t get to the final couple of articles, I just wanted to mention them real quickly.  The White House launched a live video chat on Facebook, which is something that we had talked a little bit about when Obama got inaugurated, did the video feed with the Facebook chat, and you know, that was done, obviously January, it’s great to see him continuing that on the White House gov, and then the other thing that we probably, we definitely don’t have time to go into is the iPhone versus the flipcam, so sorry to those folks who are watching that we can’t get to that, but I did want to mention that the Marketing Sherpa Webinar that we did last week is now available online, so John’s gonna tweet out a link so that those of you who registered, you can get to your registration.  If you haven’t registered, you can click on this link and get a registration, and next Thursday, July second, our guests are going to be Kate Brodock and Anya Woods of the Other Side Group, so, really excited to have them on the show.  So, just wanted to say thank you for being on the show this week.

[30:28]
Frank: Oh, thank you for having me.

[30:29]
Matthew: A lot of great information; I suspect that this one might be a one that gets a lot of hits in the archive, a lot of great advice.

[30:37]
Frank: Great.  Well, thank you.

[30:38]
Matthew: All right, thanks and have a great week everybody.  We’ll see you next Thursday at three PM.  Bye.;