[00:00]
Matthew:  Hello and welcome. Today is October 29th and you are watching VisibleGains live. (crowd cheering)

[00:18]
Matthew: Well, thanks everyone for joining. We have a pretty special episode cued up for you today.

[00:24]
Dave: Really?

[00:24]
Matthew: With me today is Dave Kilkenny senior digital producer here at VisibleGains. Nice to have you back on the show.

[00:30]
Dave: Old Reliable

[00:31]
Matthew: Old Reliable. So I mentioned that we have a pretty special show. You can also tweet to us through the VisibleGains…

[00:42]
Dave: VisibleGains live, right.

[00:42]
Matthew: …VisibleGains live hatched egg. And we’ll see your tweets and we’ll answer them here on camera. What we have done today is we’ve cued up some video for you to watch. We’ve gone out on the street and talked to a whole bunch of different local online marketing, B2B marketing, and video marketing experts.

[01:02]
Dave: Familiar faces.

[01:03]
Matthew: Familiar faces. People you should all know and recognize. And we’re going to be offering some commentary on those interviews through some new technology that allows us to play these videos directly into the stream with us in kind of a picture in picture effect. So it’s a new thing that we’ve launched. It’s one of the reasons we’re running just a couple of minutes late today. So if we experience a few technical difficulties throughout the show, you know just bear with us.

[01:27]
Dave: Apologize in advance.

[01:28]
Matthew:  You’ve got two producers over here today helping us out. We’ve got Abba who we have every week, and we’ve got Chris Kyle also. So make sure that we’re doing alright, guys, alright? Alright, thanks. So the first thing that we have cued up is some video that we shot, Dave and I, shot at the Invale Marketing Summit.

[01:47]
Dave: Right, great event.

[01:48]
Matthew: It was a super event put on by the folks over at New Marketing Labs. And this is, I think, the second or third year that they’ve had the event at Gillette Stadium. Great, great venue, and they brought together all the key experts in B2B marketing and social media marketing, and engagement marketing, and it’s…it was two days really fun time. And VisibleGains was actually able to record one of the panels. And the one that we recorded was called “End the Social Media Hype.”

[02:23]
Dave: Right.

[02:24]
Matthew: And there was, I think, 5 or 6 great experts including Chris Brogan, Jason Falls, C. C. Chapman, who was on the show last week.

[02:31]
Dave: Yep.

[02:32]
Matthew: Brian Solice, and Paul Gillan. And it was hosted by Mike Lewis of Awareness, and they talked a lot about how in the year since they had the New Marketing Summit social media has clearly taken off.

[02:45]
Dave: Right. Lot of change.

[02:46]
Matthew: And it’s attracted kind of an undesirable element of people offering or making kind of big promises and not really able to kind of deliver on those promises.

[02:56]
Dave: I have no idea what they’re talking about.

[02:57]
Matthew: There was a bit about how it affects B2B that I thought was interesting. Chris Brogan talks a little bit about social media, and the use of online video. So why don’t we hear what the story is that he had to say.
VIDEO CLIP
[03:10]
Mike: On the B2B side, you’re trying to influence a greater group, and I get the whole [?] you know it’s still a person selling to a person. I get that.

[03:17]
Chris: You’re right, it’s a multi-person sale, it’s a complex sale, but I mean it’s the same sort of thing. Great content sales great stuff. When I was at IBM research, we had this great conversation about there was this guy who made a video about one of these super computers. These  super computers are a three year sales cycle. It’s three years from when you think you might buy one to when you can get one. And this guy took an internal IBM video and recut it and had his friend with a really good baritone voice make a YouTube video. YouTube video got 149,00 views within the first several months, and not through the official channels ‘cause it turns out the guy who made the video was in the call center. So the head of marketing contacts the call center guy and was like, (makes ringing sound with mouth), hello? Yes, there’s a guy there that made a video and it’s really unauthorized and it got 149,000 views on YouTube. And we don’t like that. We need to take it down. And the call center guy’s like, I’m sorry did you start this by saying 149,000 views on YouTube? I’m not talking to you. (Thumps mic on leg.) So I mean I think yes, the tools all still do the same thing. You’re right. You have to influence more people. But people love good content. We don’t stop loving good content because we buy equipment from other people or we buy services from other people. Just maybe that we have to hit different targets, so maybe the strategy  is just, you know, how do you touch as many, kiss as many babies as you can on the way to make the purchase?

[04:34]
Second Man From Left: B2B doesn’t get talked about very much because it’s boring. But I mean, the stuff that works in B2B, it’s blogs, it’s pod casts, they rock, they absolutely are killing in B2B. Look what Microsoft is doing with channel 9 and with it’s blogging and there’s a huge success in B2B channels. But there’s not a lot of sexy stuff. It’s not like YouTube. Not a lot of contests but very mainstream.

[04:58]
Mike: So and there are a lot a great companies here for everyone back home that are doing some great B2B stuff. Help Spot, you know, Radiant 6, doing a lot of stuff on the B2B side. Using social media to get more sales, to get more revenue, the whole nine yards, so definitely, yeah…

END OF VIDEO CLIP

[05:15]
Matthew: So I think Chris brings up a great little anecdote about how, you know, B2B is still selling to people. I think kind of Mike cued that up as part of his introduction. And creating compelling content is still going to when whether you are in  B2B or B2C.

[05:35]
Dave: That’s right.

[05:36]
Matthew: Great story about a B2B hardware company was able to take advantage of online video as well as social media. You know, that’s what YouTube kind of brings together as a social community around video. And use that to talk about their product but also expose a little bit of their personality. And I think that’s ultimately sometimes what B2B marketers are afraid of because there are multiple decision makers.

[06:02]
Dave: Right. I mean, if you think about it, for a B2B video to get 149,000, which is no small feat in and of itself.

[06:09]
Matthew: Right.

[06:10]
Dave: You get the one person…you don’t even get a lawyer involved in this. It’s the guy in marketing who goes, can you take it off? And, you know, it’s a common thing that we talked about for, you know, episodes in the past about outdated ideas what marketing is these days. You know, it’s going to hold your company back. It rings true even on the B2B side that even though it’s YouTube, it’s different market, blah, blah, blah, it still works.  You got to get your content out there.

[06:40]
Matthew: Still got to be, you know, I think it was C. C. Chapman who said last week there are two primary ways that you got to create content. You can do it to educate, or to entertain.

[06:49]
Dave: Right.

[06:50]
Matthew: And especially in the B2B world, that rings true that you can, you can, you can create what’s perceived as compelling content in those two ways.

[06:58]
Dave: Yeah, even&nb
sp; if it’s entertain, it’s still, it’s still getting your brand out there.

[07:01]
Matthew: True.

[07:01]
Dave: It’s still getting the eyeballs.

[07:04]
Matthew: So entertain would probably be best used for the brand awareness piece.

[07:08]
Dave: Right.

[07:08]
Matthew: Although you could probably use some entertainment to get some demand generation, and lead capture.

[07 :14]
Dave: Right.

[07:14]
Matthew: Maybe not so much in the B2B world.  Certainly educational content is gonna, is gonna be the way that you get those inbound links and you get leads coming in.

[07:26]
Dave: Right.

[07:26]
Matthew: So, moving on. Dave, you and I actually went to a MyTechs event a couple of weeks ago. It was a meet up, a tweet up.

[07:37]
Dave: Yeah, for Chris Brogan.

[07:38]
Matthew: It was a book signing for Chris’s book. And we had the opportunity to take a few folks aside and ask them a few questions, and get their reactions on camera. One of them was a local online video marketing superstar.

[07:53]
Dave: Steve Garfield. Yeah. Yep.

[07:53]
Matthew: Steve Garfield, of SteveGarfield.com. We asked him a few questions and had some great insights both in terms of…well, you know what?

[08:04]
Dave: Let‘s just watch it.

[08:05]
 Matthew: Let’s just let Steve do the talking.

VIDEO CLIP

[08:10]
Steve: And I think in Boston, we have an amazing social network of people, that like, actually for this week I’m going out every night of the week for a social media event.  And I get to meet all these different people and some business might develop out of that, so I think the environment for companies to come into Boston, and who are in Boston to participate in this social network of people could be very valuable to them to find employees. For me it’s very valuable, because I find people that I want to work with or that want to work with me, and it’s all this situation where you know them. And there’s really no resumes forwarding around. It’s not show me a resume to get to know you and then they’ll hire you based on having met you and gotten to know you and in a social way. It’s great, really.

BREAK IN VIDEO CLIP

[09:04]
Steve: …event is open and free. And I’m a proponent of free events. And I think that opens it up to more people being able to attend. And there’s a number of events in town that end up being paid events, and I think that keeps people back from attending. When you have a whole week of free events and there’s one that costs some money. So I think that being generous and hosting this one without having like a cover charge, encourages people to attend. So if they want to sponsor events to be able to make more things like this happen, that would be great.

BREAK IN VIDEO CLIP

[09:47]
Steve: Sometimes I’m wondering if the sponsors end up buying a speaking position to sell their product. And that ‘s something, you know, I don’t like to end up sitting in a conference and saying oh, here’s some selling.

[10:00]
Matthew: Right.

[10:01]
Steve: So when I run my events, there’s no sales allowed. So the combination of having it be a paid event with the possibility of the sponsors getting a minute to talk about their product, I mean, I understand that, but I don’t really like it.

BREAK IN VIDEO CLIP

[10:22]
Steve: Online marketers need listen. Right? And they need to go out on the web and listen to what people are talking about and saying. So, now you can use tools that some of the sites have in-built like Twitter Search, which is at search.twitter.com. And you can key in your company name and you can see what people are talking about. But there’s a whole nother level of tools that companies can use to help them find out what people are saying, when they are saying it, how much of an influence certain people have. Like when they say something on Twitter, who re-tweets it, and you know, who are the thought leaders and trust agents out there. So I think that some of these tools that analyze how we’re, people are saying things about you, are something that companies should look at. And then, to take that one step further, look at tools that would help the company join in on the conversation and respond, and you know, share and let other people know what the conversation…

END OF VIDEO CLIP

[11:30]
Matthew: So, a couple of great insights from Steve. The first question that I asked him was what  is it about Boston that technology companies as well as technology workers need to understand in order to kind of see what’s really great about Boston. And I thought he had some great insights in terms of if you work here and if you’ve…you know, for me, I grew up in this area. I went to school in this area. And I live and work here, and I kind of got used to how great it is here. Dave you’re a transplant from a different part of the country…

[12:02]
Dave: Yep. Originally from New York.

[12:03]                                       
Matthew: Originally from New York. Which isn’t really that far away, but…

[12:07]
Dave: Well, I mean, it’s coming from…it‘s a totally different environment. It’s a totally different market. You know, when I came up here I had…didn’t know Waltham. I didn’t know downtown, didn’t know where all the hot spots were.  I learned it through time.

[12:20]
Matthew: And have you found it? I mean have you found that this obviously you’re still here, so…

[12:24]
Dave: Yeah, absolutely.

[12:26]
Matthew: This professional move is probably a good move for you?

[12:27]
Dave: Absolutely. I felt New York, for as great as it is, it’s tough. It’s a tough market. And up here I felt that there is a lot of opportunity for me. My wife and I feel like one of the greatest things we did was come to Boston, so…

[12:41]
Matthew: Cool. And then we talked with Steve a little bit about all of the events that do take place. A sponsored versus non-sponsored, paid versus non-paid.

[12:52]
Dave: Right.

[12:53]
Matthew: Clearly Steve has a pretty clear preference for free. But I’d like to ask the folks that are watching if…You know it’s very difficult to, as an organization, let’s say MyTechs was hosting that particular event, to have free events all the time.

[13:10]
Dave: Right.

[13:11]
Matthew: I mean, MyTechs is the premiere organization that brings together innovative technology and technology companies and you know, they, it takes money to do that.

[13:23]
Dave: Absolutely.

[13:24]
Matthew: Can’t give it away free all the time. I, myself, I do like free events, of course, who doesn’t like free? But I’m not adverse to paying to go to an event if the panel seems worthy of, you know, a few bucks, so I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

[13:38]
Dave: And I think not just the panel too, but I think just the people who would go to events…take for instance the Inbound Marketing Summit. I mean, I would tend to think that you would get more people…

[13:48]
Matthew: The Inbound Marketing Summit was like 700 bucks a ticket, right, for two days?

[13:52]
Dave: Yeah, I mean, I think the people you would meet there would be more people you’d want to know.

[13:54]
Matthew: Uh-huh.

[13:54]
Dave: …some of them more, better decision makers that if
you’re looking for a job or you’re looking to network…

[13:59]
Matthew: Sure.

[14:00]
Dave: …that these are the people you would really want to engage with. Would they go to a free event that often?

[14:03]
Matthew: Keeps out the riff raff. Quite honestly, I mean candidly, that’s what it does, right?

[14:08]
Dave: Right.

[14:09]
Matthew: And then finally, online marketers need to listen. I think that was a pretty simple, but yet still insightful bit of advice from Steve. There’s a…and we talked about this on the show a lot…there’s a conversation about your brand that’s happening online.

[14:24]
Dave: Right.

[14:25]
Matthew: Whether you partake in that or not, it’s still happening. People are twittering about you. They’re blogging about you. They’re having this discussion online, and if you’re not listening to what’s happening, you’re letting someone else take the initiative on your brand.

[14:41]
Dave: Right.

[14:42]
Matthew: So, good advice from Steve on that.

[14:44]
Dave: Well, actually one other point that Steve wanted to make was regards to social networking and to, you know, the whole thing about linked in, and it’s not just about getting, knowing people on linked in and connecting that way. It’s about getting out there and getting to these events and networking that way as well, getting face time.

[15:02]
Matthew: Right.

[15:03]
Dave: Because you could meet one person and then just grab a whole bunch of linked in links and not actually know any of these people.

[15:10]
Matthew: It’s not a genuine connection.

[15:11]
Dave: Right. It’s not a genuine connection. By going out there and putting a handshake to the username I guess, is I think, the best way to get out there in the market.

[15:21]
Matthew: And some of the folks that we’ve shown today on the video portion of the show are the masters of doing both sides of that.

[15:28]
Dave: Exactly.

[15:29]
Matthew:…both networking online and being relevant and creating that both educational and/or entertaining content as well as getting out there. I mean Steve mentioned he goes out almost every night. Every other night.

[15:41]
Dave: Right. That’s a lot.

[15:43]
Matthew: To meet folks and put faces to names, so that’s important. Love to get your feedback on how this new technology’s going. Anything we can do to improve or just do better in any way. It’s a little, it’s gotten off, it’s gotten me off my mojo, I don’t know about you.

[16:04]
Dave: Well, it’s…

[16:05]
Matthew: To see myself in the camera and to see the picture in picture, so.  What are your thoughts on how we’re doing so far?

[16:11]
Dave: I think great. I think, you know,  obviously it puts a new spin on the show.

[16:13]
Matthew: Yeah. Yeah, another thing to worry about.

[16:16]
Dave: If you’ve watched the show in the past, you’ve noticed we’ve tried to do this in the past.  Put it on video in the back, it’s a little awkward. The transition isn’t as nice.

[16:24]
Matthew: Can’t see it.

[16:25]
Dave: Can’t see it. Can’t hear it, so you know, some of those complaints that you’ve said in the past, we are listening, and I know Matt has worked hard to make this show progressively better.

[16:34]
Matthew: Well, we all have. And you’ve definitely contributed as well, as well as Abba and Chris and the rest of the folks, so…It’s a great technology, certainly allows us to get more people on the show virtually.

[16:49]
Dave: Absolutely.

[16:49]
Matthew: I mean we can go out and  see Steve and ask him to sit down, and ask him 4 or 5  questions. And then put him on the show when he doesn’t truck all the way over here and be here Thursday at 3 o’clock.

[17:01]
Dave: Exactly.

[17:01]
Matthew: So I’m really looking forward to utilizing this going forward. But once again, leave us some feedback on what you thought, if it’s working, if you can hear it, if you can see it, anything you want. So as always, we’re really interested in feedback. We did have the next clip was another industry expert on the subject of viral video, so let’s see what he has to say about getting video online.

VIDEO CLIP

[17:30]
Expert (Dave): Has this ever happened to you?

[17:32]
Man’s Voice: Calsinger, what are we doing about YouTube? We need to be doing this now. All our competitors are already doing YouTube.  Why haven’t we done it? Figure it out.

[17:40]
Expert (Dave): Well, wait no more. Here at IWantMyViralVideo.com, our patent pending algorithm can answer the YouTube question once and for all. You can test drive the iwantmyviralvideo.com system with 30 day test drive before you buy it. You’ll go viral for it.

END OF VIDEO CLIP

[17:59]
Matthew: So that was a clip from a campaign that we launched with Dave, obviously. Geez, I don’t know, 6 months ago or more?

[18:07]
Dave: Yeah. Probably in the winter of this year.

[18:10]
Matthew: It was a little bit of a parody on kind of that hype that’s built up around video. Everyone wants a viral video. How do I make my video go viral? As someone who works in online video company, I must get that question asked of me at least one or two times a week.

[18:28]
Dave: Well, it’s easy. You go to I Want My Viral Video and you just make it.

[18:32]
Matthew: So check out iwantmyviralvideo.com. You can see more of Dave doing his best impersonation of Crazy Eddie.

[18:39]
Dave: Crazy Eddie.

[18:40]
Matthew: And all your viral video needs will be answered on that site. Check it out. So next up, I’d like to play a quick video that we worked on with David Meerman Scott. He went around the world and asked people some questions. And Chris actually put together this video which I think is a pretty cool synopsis of what he found out, so Dave, uh, Chris, why don’t you roll the old 5 questions.

VIDEO CLIP

[19:07]
David: Ok, so I’m here in Istanbul. Riga Latvia. Estonia today. Lithuania. Hi, I’m in Zagreb Croatia. We’re in Boston. We’re in Wellington, New Zealand, today. I’ve done this in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Turkey, all over the United States. Here’s the first question. In the last 1 to 2 months, either privately or professionally, have you answered a direct mail advertisement? Zero. Oh, I’m sorry. We’ve got, let’s call it 5% of this room. 4% of the room. 30% . I got 3, 4 people, 5 people, ok, we’re up to 4% of the room. Looks like I’ve only got 2 hands. Have you gone through the telephone directory? The Yellow Pages? The telephone directory? Has anybody done that in the last several months? I see zero hands. 2 we got 2 people. No hands. That would be zero. In order to research a product or service that you might want to buy, have you gone to mainstream media? That means magazines,  radio, television, or newspapers. That’s 20% of the room. I’d say that’s 10% of this room. Let’s call that 4% of the room. Have you gone to Google or another search engine? Google or another search engine? Look at that. There’s 100% of the room. 100%. 100% of the room and one person in the back playing (?). Do you believe that’s 100% of this room. Have you tapped your online network? That means used email, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, and somebody sent you back an answer to, which was a URL, a website you visited? How many people can answer yes to this question? I’m gonna say that’s 85% of the room. 95% of this room. That’s 80% of this room. 80%. 90%. I’m gonn
a turn the camera back to myself, and say see I told you. All over the world. We’re here in Istanbul. All over the world, people answer that question exactly the same way.

[21:32]
Matthew: So you can see, that video and others on David’s blog, Web Inc. Now. Highly encourage you to check it out if you haven’t done so. Dave is a great speaker and online video, online marketing, and just an expert. He wrote The New Rules of Marketing and PR.
But, you know, it was pretty cool how Chris was able to put that video together. You can literally see everyone answering the same way, whether it’s in Istanbul, or Boston, or Philippines, or  wherever it is. And it shouldn’t be any surprise if you’re out there marketing to anybody whether it’s B2B or B2C, the traditional media is not where…

[20:15]
Dave: No.

[20:15]
Matthew: …people are going to find the answers to their informational needs. They’re going online. They’re searching. And if you’re not present online whether it’s your online, your website, your main website, your blog, your Twitter account, your Facebook fanpage, your YouTube account. These are all places people are going to find answers about things that will help them solve their problems. And if you are offering a product or service to help people solve problems, which …

[22:45]
Dave: B2B or B2C

[22:46]
Matthew: …everybody’s doing, you are missing out on a tremendous shift in the way people are buying online, so check out Web Inc. Now, and also follow David at @DMScott on Twitter. He’s got a lot of great stuff to say. What did you think about that video?

[23:03]
Dave: Yeah, I mean, to exactly to your point. I mean, it’s the whole shift. It should come to no surprise. You might say ahh well that’s David’s audience they’re probably shifted towards that to begin with. That’s why they’re there. But not really. That’s how people are thinking. That’s how people are buying these days.

[23:18]
Matthew: I mean, I would almost say the opposite. You know, I’ve seen David speak a bunch of times, and, you know, I think I get the gist of it.

[23:27]
Dave: Right.

[23:27]
Matthew: I’m definitely a convert. I’ve read the books, and I would probably not go to see Dave again. I mean, I would if it was convenient to me, but I would probably say I think I get it already.

[23:42]
Dave: Right.

[23:42]
Matthew: Where as the folks that do go probably say…

[23:44]
Dave: I don’t get it?

[23:45]
Matthew: I need to learn something.

[23:46]
Dave: I see. I see.

[23:47]
Matthew: And yet at the same time, they probably understand it more than they know. Does that make any sense?

[23:53]
Dave: Yeah, absolutely.

[23:54]
Matthew: So, yeah, I confused myself on that one. (laughs)

[23:58]
Dave: Nah. You made your point. I understand.

[24:01]
Matthew: Alright, so I think this technology has definitely confused me enough for one day. (both laugh) Once again feel free to send in some tweets, send in some iTunes reviews. You can check us out on iTunes VisibleGains.com/iTunes. And you can also check out our Facebook page and any other way you want to give us feedback on what you saw here today. If it worked, if it didn’t work, anything. What do you got, Dave?

[24:33]
Dave: Yeah, exactly, I mean this is all…

[24:35]
Matthew: Exactly. (laughs)

[24:36]
Dave: This is all brand new and we look for more good things to come in the next few weeks as we introduce more ways for people to interact with the live show.

[24:47]
Matthew: And get better.

[24:47]
Dave: And this whole transition, this awkwardness goes away.

[24:52]
Matthew: So next week, speaking of future weeks, we will be talking Thursday at 3 o’clock with Larry Webber.

[24:49]
Dave: Absolutely.

[25:00]
Matthew: I’m excited about that. Larry was going to be on the show a couple of weeks ago. Had to reschedule due to a prior commitment. But he is the author of the recently released…he’s the author of several books…but recently, Sticks and Stones, which is all about managing your brand online and dealing with the trials and tribulations of negative comments and that sort of thing.

[25:23]
Dave: It’s a great read.

[25:24]
Matthew: So we have a quick sneak peek on what we’ll be talking with Larry about. And that’s how we’ll end the show so ‘til then, we will see you next week. Thursday, 3 o’clock. I’m Matthew Mamet.

[25:37]
Dave: And I’m Dave Kilkenny.

[25:39]
Matthew: Take care everybody.

VIDEO CLIP

[25:41]
Larry: Hi, I’m Larry Webber and I’ve been in marketing for about 30 years now. I’m most known for building the largest technology PR firm in the world that was called the Webber Group. I built the largest PR firm in the world, Webber Shandwick. My last group of companies which is called W2. I also started MyTechs. Why did I decide to write Sticks and Stones? What does it mean to influence people? At any time, somebody can click on a blog to find a negative comment about you. There’s a bigger issue going on here. Brand influence and reputation are all becoming one. I mean, You’re gonna have to create the environments people want to learn, share, meet up, but also, buy things.

BREAK IN VIDEO CLIP

[26:24]
Larry: You know I look forward to being on PTV, you know in a few weeks.

END

[00:00]
Matthew:  Hello and welcome everybody.  Today is October 22nd, 2009 and you’re watching Visible Gains Live. [applauds]

[audience applauds and cheers]

[00:10].
Matthew:  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  My name is Matthew Mamet.  I am at ‘msmamet’ on Twitter and with me today CC Chapman, Creative Director at New York based Campfire, a full service Marketing agency.

[00:22]
CC:  That’s us.

[00:23]
Matthew:  Welcome to the show.

[00:24]
CC:  Thanks for having me man.

[00:25]
Matthew: Thanks for being on the show.  Really excited to have you to probe your brain, about marketing, about sales, about engagements, about social media. 

[00:33]
CC:  Cool.

[00:34]
Matthew:  CC has been kind of running ragged lately from Inbound Marketing Summit and beyond.

[00:39]
CC:  It’s been crazy.  It’s been, uh, it’s one of those things. I mean, you know, if you ever speak, summer happens, there’s no conferences.  And then all of a sudden it’s back to school, they pause, and then all of a sudden everyone rushes to get everything done before the holidays.  So, you know, it’s one thing last week.  I’m going to be headed to L.A. next week. You know.

[00:56]
Matthew:  Tell us a little about your itinerary.  Where have you been and where are you going?

[00:59]
CC:  Where have I been?  Last week I was in, so, ok, Inbound Marketing Summit started everything at Gillette Stadium.  That was great, down the street from my house.  Every conference should be held there.  I wish.  Then it was on to Blog World in Las Vegas, which was last week, which was a really good time.  And I’m off this week.  I’m here. No, I’m here.  I’m not off.  I’m here.

[01:16]
Matthew: (laughs)

[01:16]
CC:  And then next week is L.A. for the One Forty Conference.

[01:19]
Matthew:  Ok.

[01:19]
CC:  And then I come back, New York, for the Audience Conference, which is a brand new one.  I’m really excited about the Audience Conference.  It’s a different conference focused on the importance of the audience.  Where it’s going to have art mixed with social media and performances.

[01:33]
Matthew:  Cool.

[01:34]
CC:  Kind of, you know, like Mike Arrington and then a hip hop band, and then Jason Calacanis and then a puppet.  You know, who knows what’s going on.  So I can’t wait for that.  Then it’s Web 2.0 in New York.  So, and then I think I’m done.  I think. Something else might come up. So, that’s the current schedule.

[01:47]
Matthew:  Well thank you for taking time out to squeeze in our little half hour appearance.

[01:51]
CC:  It’s awesome to be here. I mean, you know, I have to take care of the other Boston people.  Boston people take care of each other.

[01:58]
Matthew:  I had the opportunity to be down at the Inbound Marketing Summit and I heard some of the panels that you were on.

[02:01]
CC:  One of them you hosted. Yeah. (laughs)

[02:05]
Matthew:  VisibleGains is actually working with awareness and Mike Lewis who was moderating the panel that you were on, which was pretty cool I thought.

[02:13]
CC:  It was fun.  It was different, yeah.  Next time we’ll get a woman on it, right?

[02:17]
Matthew:  That’s right.  Cause Chris Brogan had a kind of unique way of pointing out …

[02:22]
CC:  Yeah, we’ll leave the counting,

[02:24]
Matthew: … the chromosome count.

[02:25]
CC:  We’ll leave the counting to everyone else.

[02:26]
Matthew:  So you can check that out on our blog as well as the Awareness blog as well as probably a million other blogs.

[02:31]
CC:  Yep.

[02:32]
Matthew:  That panel but, I want to talk a little bit today about some similar topics but the first thing I wanted to bring to everyone’s attention is that you, as I mentioned, are Creative Director at Campfire, which is a new role for you because you recently had an agency that was acquired.   Tell us a little bit about that.

[02:50]
CC:  So, yeah, the Advance Guard was an agency that was started in 2007 with me, myself and Steve Colson, my business partner.  And we worked with Campfire from day one.  I mean, we leased office space from them.  We knew these guys.  We worked with them on a variety of projects.  And what was interesting was over the summer we just kind of got together and had this conversation and it came up, you know, well what if we acquire you.  And it was interesting.  It was the first time I’d ever sold a business to somebody and everyone was what happened to Advance Guard, you know, what are you doing now, you’re living on the beach, living large.  I’m like, no.  I’m still working my tail off.  I mean we all came over to Campfire just to, it was a, it was a, it made, it made sense.  It was a nice continuation where we could continue working with the clients we’d already worked with and we’d done stuff on Horizon 5 (?),  HBO, Shark Week, a lot of things, and then now all of a sudden we can do it together.  And so it’s really nice.  It’s exciting where we’ve got a really cool team in New York.  I’m here in Boston. And I’m excited about it.  Campfirenyc.com if you want to find out more about what we do and who we are.  It’s been kind of fun, we’ve been sweeping up awards lately.  I’m not much of an awards show guy but it’s kind of cool.

[03:52]
Matthew:   You’ll take ‘em.

[03:53]
CC:  Oh yeah when you go to awards show and you get, you know, you beat Coca-Cola and some other, you know, small brands, it’s kind of cool I have to admit

[04:00]
Matthew:  Yeah.

[04:01]
CC:  So a lot of that’s for the work we did, we’ve been doing on True Blood a year ago.  So it’s been a fun couple of months for sure.  I’m looking forward to it.  I’m looking forward to the new clients we’ve got coming and some of the prospects and stuff that’ll,  maybe I can come back in a year and we can talk about them.

[04:13]
Matthew:  Yeah.  I want to talk to a little bit about some of the stuff that you guys are kind of brewing up in the lab, anything you can share with us.

[04:19]
CC:  Ok.

[04:19]
Matthew: Well we’ll talk about that a little bit later on.

[04:21]
CC:  All right.

[04:22]
Matthew:  The last thing I  wanted to mention about Advance Guard was kind of a cool story about how you got that name.  I love that story.

[04:28]
CC:  You do!

[04:29]
Matthew:  Yeah.  I think that’s kind of cool.  Tell us a little about it.

[04:31]
CC:  Ah so it was kind of funny.  It was actually the Nutley Diner when we said it.  Nutley Diner in New Jersey and me and Steve were trying to figure out what we were going to do for, you know, naming the company and we liked the word vanguard.  So we said let’s find out more about this.  So we started Google-ing and Wikipedia.  And we found out the Advance Guard is where vanguard came from.  And, you know, it’s been used in books and everything.  And then we went out and all the names were free.  And we went oh, ok we got to do this.  It was one of those things.&nbsp
; The only other reference is, there’s a reference in a Harry Potter book to the Advance Guard.  Once.  And so we still have Harry Potter fans coming to our website sometimes.

[05:08]
Matthew:  Cool.

[05:09]
CC:   But it’s interesting. But that’s what it was.  And there’s a great Melville quote that we use a lot.

[05:12]
Matthew:    That’s was, that’s was what I was

[05:13]
Matthew and CC:  Yeah.

[05:13]
Matthew:  The Melville quote.

[05:13]
CC:  The Melville quote’s awesome. 

[05:14]
Matthew: I was in college back before I realized I had to make money to earn a living.  I was.  I was an English major.

CC:  Ok.

Matthew:  And so I had this whole kind of, you know, Hemmingway, Melville kind of thing going, yeah so.

CC:  Oh, all right.  I couldn’t read the whole book, White Jacket, I haven’t read it.  Is it good?

Matthew:  I haven’t read that one.

CC:  Ok. But still the quote is beautiful.

Matthew:  I love the quote.

CC:   The quote’s pretty cool.

Matthew:  Check it out on the Advance Guard website.  There’s a cool little page that kind of describes the story more.

CC:  Yep.

Matthew:  More in detail.  But let’s get back to business.

CC:   All right.

Matthew:  If you’re out there watching a flat make sure that you’re tweeting your questions to VisibleGains and we’ll see them and we’ll get the questions answered online.  But the next question I have for you was a subject about engagement versus activation.

CC: Ok.

Matthew:  So I was talking Mike Trejano, the President of Hallmark Digital, and his, he was blogging at the time, a couple weeks ago, about this very same topic, which is there’s a lot of buzz around engagement marketing, engaging with people using social media and kind of getting your fan base, and

CC:  Sure.

Matthew:  Get your fans, friends, and followers going.  But the next level or the next step is, ok now that you have all these people how do you activate them to do something?  And it, and I know that this is something that you guys specialize in. So for those that are out there who are probably at that point.  I think, if you think about the grand spectrum of people they

CC:  Right.

Matthew:  Ok I get that social media’s important.  I get that I need to be out there.  And they’ve probably created some compelling concept, gotten people who are interested in what they have.

CC:  Right.  Right.

Matthew:  They’re prepared to follow them, now what?

CC:  So, ok, yeah.  So we talk about this all the time where it’s funny that so many people are more focused on let’s get ten thousand followers, let’s get a thousand followers on Twitter or Facebook.  Let’s get a hundred thousand Facebook fans.  That’s nice and that’s cool and it makes you feel good and you want that community. But then what do you do with them?  You know.  And we talk about this a lot and one of things that we always preach is the fact that you’ve got this audience.  They’re passionate about your brand.  They had to have been to some level or they wouldn’t have joined.  You’ve given them a reason to join, become part of your community, whatever the platform.  You know, where , I think this holds true whether it’s Facebook, Ning, Twitter, or whatever it is.  You got to give them something to do.  Now I like to talk about using it to educate or entertain them, it can be one or the other.  Both, if you get both it’s great.  But you want to give them something that’s going to stimulate them.  That they’re actually going to want to share, interact, comment back, share, you know, share on their blog, do a like if it’s on Facebook.  You’ve got to give them something to do.  It could be something as simple as a Facebook application that is right for them.  You know, maybe it’s  something that gets them to interact with each other.  Maybe it’s  getting them, it’s a contest to get them to send photos in or maybe win.  Whatever it is you’ve got to ask them to do something and give them some benefit for it.  It doesn’t have to be a contest necessarily.  Sometimes people will do it just for the pure sake of I like this enough much I’m going to do something. You know, I love, it’s good to have brand advocates.  That they’re so passionate about your brand they’ll pretty much do anything for you.  All you have to do is ask.  And I guess sometimes people will  kind of forget or are they just doing this.  Well it’s because you didn’t ask them to.  And it could be something as simple as, hey tell us about your experience in our store or share the latest piece of clothing you bought or it could, it could be anything.

Matthew:  So from what I see, kind of, in my experience, which is, is limited.  To say the least.  And it’s also a little bit more focused on B to B.

CC:  Yeah.

Matthew:  I think there’s kind of two, there’s the two ends of that spectrum.  There’s the folks that have the ten thousand followers and they’re afraid to do anything.  They’re afraid to ask.  They’re like I don’t want to do anything wrong.

CC:  Right.

Matthew:  Because there are so many people out there telling me how to do it and I don’t know who’s right and I’m kind of nervous and scared.  And then there are the other on the other end of the spectrum is great I got ten thousand people.  I’m going to tell them to buy my stuff immediately.

CC:  Right.

Matthew:  So, what are some examples?  Specific examples that you’ve seen in that middle ground and I heard what you said just now about you have two main choices, educate or entertain.

CC:  Entertain, yeah.

Matthew:  And I think in B to B kind of, people kind of,

CC:  It’s more towards the education

Matthew:  Education.

CC:  Educate, yeah.  But if you could entertain them while you’re educating them then that’s the coup de gras, if you can get it. It ain’t easy and it doesn’t always work.

Matthew:  And it, it’s takes, it takes a little bit of risk there too.

CC:  Oh yeah.

Matthew:  Educate, you know, you’re not entertaining.

CC: (laughs)

Matthew:  You know, well, we’ll table that.  So in the education piece I’m thinking about, you know, all these companies out there.  VisibleGains is one of them.

CC:  Yep.

Matthew:  That’s creating as much compelling, educational content as we can.

CC:  Right.

Matthew:  To attract the right people.  And then what?  You know, so, how do we kind of convert them into?

CC:  Well let me ask you, because I don’t, I don’t know this about your econo-, I mean, I’ve seen the show.  I’ve seen the content.  But do you ever ask, you know, your viewers, either during or after the fact, do you ever ask them hey what could we do better, what question didn’t we ask.  You know, I don’t, it’s something as simple as that.  I don’t know if you’re doing it or not.  But it’s amazing where, if you’ve got people who are paying attention, even if it’s only ten people or a hundred or a thousand.  If you say, what did you think of this, what could we have, do, done better.  That’s a safe question no matter what industry you’re in.  I’m not saying that people are not scared to ask it cause brands a
re petrified of what could we do better.

Matthew:  Right.

CC:  But its such a simple, easy ask and an easy win.  Tell us what you thought is another simple, and I know that’s scary too.  I mean, I say, I talk to clients all the time and they’re like what if they say something bad.  Yeah some people might say stuff bad.

Matthew:  So I am a, as you can probably tell by the questions I just asked you.

CC:  Yeah.

Matthew:  I am always looking for feedback.  I’m always looking for advice.  And you can leave that on VisibleGains/itunes.  Go in there and give us a rating, whether it’s zero stars or five stars and give us your review and give us that feedback. Love to have, um..

CC:  So you ask for it on itunes.

Matthew:  Yeah, that’s how I, uh..

CC:  That’s very public.

Matthew:  Yes.

CC:  That’s, that’s cool.  No, no I’m all for it.  I’m just, I was expecting you to say, you know, come to our website and leave it on the show.  That’s great you asking for that public of a forum.

Matthew:  You know we also do the Facebook page and all.

CC:  Ok.

Matthew:  But I think we’ve seen the most success with itunes.

CC:  Well it’s a double win for you obviously, because if other people see positive reviews, they subscribe, I mean, it’s like, it’s a smart strategy.

Matthew:  Cool.  So asking people what they think.

CC:  Ask them what they think.  Give them you know, give them something to play with. I mean, I was talking in, uh, don’t be afraid of what they’re going to say.  And I understand it’s such a hard concept.  I worked with some of the biggest brands in the world and they’re nervous too.  But I think you’d be amazed if you gave a little bit of a trust in your community, if you have a passionate community, if you trust them a little, even a little bit, they’re not going to revolt against you. You know, it’s one of, you know, baby steps.  Give a little bit of trust, give a little bit more.  It won’t hurt.  I promise.  Maybe a little bit at first, but…

Matthew:  And you know if you’re that transparent and open and honest, they’ll help you.  They’ll protect you.

CC:  Yeah.

Matthew:  That’s one thing that I’ve learned from personal experience.

CC:  Especially because then they become your advocates.  They will step up and defend you.  Or they will step up, there’s nothing better than if someone does say oh I hate this, whatever it is.  Some action you took, it’s a product, whatever it is.  If they step in and say I hate this, if you have a passionate enough community, you don’t have to say a thing.  Because your advocates are going to step up and say well I had that problem but here’s what I did to fix it.  Or, yes, but did you see this.   Or, that’s the one time that they will step up and defend you and if you can get that community so passionate that they’ll defend you.  That’s, that’s the goal that you’re striving for.  Where you can just kind of sit back and jump in where appropriately, where your community takes care of itself.  When you get to that point it’s a beautiful thing.